by Mark Keefe - Thursday, May 14, 2015
I have a good condition M1 Carbine. I am looking to sell I have been studying a little bit on what the Gun may be worth and want to ask what others might think the firearm is worth. Serial # 4277930 IBM Good condition. Not an import! I bought it originally in about 1988. There is 1-5 round clip, 2-10 round clips, and a 20 round clip.
The “U.S. Carbine, Caliber .30, M1” was the most produced American infantry arm of World War II. And it's back. Again. As this is written, my cheek is gleefully stained with linseed oil (either that or I have jaundice; not so gleeful) from test firing the M1 Carbine and M1A1 Paratrooper Carbines as made today by Inland Manufacturing in Dayton, Ohio. The guns look great and capture the nostalgia and function of the originals made from 1942 to 1945 (read an earlier review by B. Gil Horman here and watch a video of it being fired at SHOT Show 2015). But carbines are much bigger than their use by the “Greatest Generation” during World War II.
Speaking of carbines, here are some things you may or may not have known about the gun that started out as the U.S. Army’s “Light Rifle.”
Speaking of carbines, here are some things you may or may not have known about the gun that started out as the U.S. Army’s “Light Rifle.”
1. The M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective.
Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever did not need a full-size rifle. No one doubts it is better than a pistol at any but the shortest of ranges, and, unlike Marines at “Frozen Chosin,” you can use modern defensive ammo. Our troops back then used 110-gr. ball ammo. At 100 yards, the Hornady 110-gr. FTX delivers 1600 f.p.s. and 626 ft.-lbs. of energy. In contrast, a 55-gr., .223 Rem. at 100 yards delivers 983 ft.-lbs. of energy. A 158-gr. XTP out of a .357 Mag. at 100 yards at 1073 f.p.s. delivers a mere 404 ft.-lbs. Anyone want to call .357 Mag. puny?
Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever did not need a full-size rifle. No one doubts it is better than a pistol at any but the shortest of ranges, and, unlike Marines at “Frozen Chosin,” you can use modern defensive ammo. Our troops back then used 110-gr. ball ammo. At 100 yards, the Hornady 110-gr. FTX delivers 1600 f.p.s. and 626 ft.-lbs. of energy. In contrast, a 55-gr., .223 Rem. at 100 yards delivers 983 ft.-lbs. of energy. A 158-gr. XTP out of a .357 Mag. at 100 yards at 1073 f.p.s. delivers a mere 404 ft.-lbs. Anyone want to call .357 Mag. puny?
2. If the Carbine was so bad, why did Audie Murphy use one?
American’s most decorated soldier of World War II, Lt. Audie Murphy, when he fought off a German combined arms attack pretty much by himself on Jan. 26, 1945, used a field phone, a .50 M2 Browning and his M1 Carbine. If you ever watch “To Hell and Back” starring Medal of Honor recipient Murphy as himself, you can tell he really knew how to handle a carbine.
3. It was the chosen weapon of our enemy.
During the early fighting in the Vietnam War, our main enemy—the Viet Cong—armed entire units the M1 and M2 Carbines, guns they took from the French, then from ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) and local forces of the South Vietnamese. Guns given to our allies were used against our troops. The AK-47 become more common as more and more NVA got into the fight.
During the early fighting in the Vietnam War, our main enemy—the Viet Cong—armed entire units the M1 and M2 Carbines, guns they took from the French, then from ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) and local forces of the South Vietnamese. Guns given to our allies were used against our troops. The AK-47 become more common as more and more NVA got into the fight.
4. It was the only gun made specifically for U.S. Airborne Forces during World War II.
The M1A1 carbine with its pistol grip and folding metal stock was adopted in May 1942 specifically for use of American Airborne troops. Inland was the only original maker (others were later converted in the overhaul system) and produced 140,591 during World War II. It even came with a nifty web belt holster called a “jump scabbard.” Okay, there is the Reising 55, too, but that is a story for another day.
5. You can’t get them surplus.
The last big import wave of M1 Carbines came in from blue Sky and Arlington Ordnance decades ago. In 1963, about 240,000 M1 Carbines were decommissioned and sold (without magazines) to NRA members for a $20 each ($17.50 plus $2.50 S&H). There is a large quantity of surplus carbines warehoused in South Korea, but the current administration prohibits their importation. The good news is that Auto-Ordnance and the new Inland Mfg. offer new versions of the original “Light Rifle” in a host of variations for both collectors and shooters.
6. Winchester—even though it was invented there—wasn’t the largest producer.
Nope, that honor goes to the Inland Mfg. Division of General Motors with 2,362,097. Winchester made 828,059, followed by Underwood Elliott-Fisher at 545,616, Saginaw Steering Gear 517,212, IBM at 346,500, Standard Products at 247,000, Rock-Ola (yes, the juke box maker), with 228,500, Quality Hardware at 359,666, National Postal Meter at 413,017 and Irwin-Pedersen made a few thousand but had trouble.
7. It was the U.S. military’s first night-time sniper rifle.
When fitted with an ungainly infrared scope, the T3 Carbine was used as night-fighting weapon in the closing days of the Pacific Theatre of Operations during World War II. It’s also the main plot device in Stephen Hunter’s novel “Black Light.” Darn, I just ruined the book for you. Read it anyway.
8. The M1 Carbine was used by police, too
In the 1960s, Jim Cirillo, from the NYPD’s Stake Out Squad, and author of “Tales of the Stakeout Squad,” used a NYPD-issue M1 Carbine with G.I. ball ammo. Cirillo was involved in more than 20 gunfights. Doubt the Carbine’s use for law enforcement? You should ask one of the NYPD’s top gunfighters.
9. You can shoot the National Matches with one.
During the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, the Civilian Marksmanship Program conducts the M1 Carbine Match to be sponsored this year by Inland Mfg., on July 21. You can also shoot them in some classes of NRA Highpower, but the bullet drop is pretty severe at long range. That’s why the CMP match is fired at 100 yards.
10. Carbines aren’t cheap.
The days of the $400 gun show Carbine are over. There are dedicated collector’s groups (the Carbine Club) and books by Carbine historian Larry Ruth as well as Field Editor Bruce Canfield that have upped the collectability of the carbine greatly. Good research does that. Original carbines, especially in high condition, are rare, and they are a collecting field unto themselves Even beat up guns go upward of $700 these days. How ridiculous are the prices? In 2008, an Inland M1A1 “paratrooper” Carbine with ironclad D-Day provenance sold at auction for $20,125.
Watch a video of the new Inland Mfg. M1 Carbine being fired during Media Day at the Range, SHOT Show 2015:
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Please enable JavaScript to view the comments powered by Disqus.By Frank Iannamico
For many years, the U.S. Caliber .30 M1 carbine has been a very popular firearm among U.S. martial arms collectors. The M1 carbine and its unique cartridge were adopted during October 1941 just prior to the United States’ entry into World War II. The original concept of the carbine was to provide a lightweight weapon to replace the .45 caliber M1911 pistol and the submachine gun. The resulting M1 carbine was handy and lightin weight, especially when compared to the .30 caliber M1 Garand rifle and the .45 caliber Thompson submachine gun. For all of its virtues, the M1 carbine lacked only one thing, and that was a powerful cartridge. The often criticized .30 carbine cartridge had a 110-grain projectile in a tapered case that was 33 millimetersin length with a muzzle velocity of 1,970 feet per second. Those who carried the carbine into harm’s way either swore by it or swore at it.
With ten prime contractors and numerous subcontractors supplying parts formanufacturing the carbine during World War II, there are enough variations to interest everyone; from novice to advanced collectors, and of course shooters. Most of the civilian prime contractors that manufactured the carbine had never before been involved in the production of firearms. Their diverse previous experience ranged from the making of music jukeboxes to automobile parts. The only carbine contractor with any considerable gun making experience before the war was the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, who had also designed the carbine. International Business Machines, more commonly known as IBM, was the last prime contractor selected to manufacture the carbine during 1943. Previously, IBM had made Browning Automatic Rifles and had been contracted to produce a few M1 carbine components for other contractors. However, instead of just parts, the companywas chosen to be a contractor to build the carbine.
In addition to the large number of contractors are the numerous upgrades and modifications that the carbine underwent during its substantial U.S. military service life, which extended into the early Vietnam era. The most desirable variations of the carbine sought by collectors are those that are in their original World War II configuration with all the correct contractor marked parts for each individual carbine contractor. After a long period of service, numerous government rebuild programs during and after World War II, the Korean War and Vietnam service, such carbines are very rare. Some of the most recognizable features of a “correct” early World War II era carbine are those with the L-type two-position flip sight, flat bolt, “high” wood stock, 2-rivet hand guard, push button- type safety, and early barrel band without the bayonet lug feature. Be advised that although the aforementioned features are the most desirable to collectors, by the war’s end in 1945, many of the latest updated parts, such as the adjustable rear sight, round bolt, “low” wood stocks and lever-style safeties were being implemented into production, resulting in a carbine having such late features still technically being considered as a “correct” World War II production carbine.
International Business Machines M1 Carbines
IBM was incorporated in New York on June 15, 1911 as the Computing- Tabulating- Recording Company (C-T-R). The company’s origins can be traced back to developments at the close of the 19th century, making it one of the oldest companies in America still doing business. On February 14, 1924 C-T-R’s name was formally changed to International Business Machines Corporation. By then, the company’s business had expanded both geographically and functionally, including the completion of three manufacturing facilities in Europe.
International Business Machines, reorganized today as IBM, is very well known worldwide for their computers and the IBM operating system. Few however realize the company’s contributions to the war effort during World War II. When the war began, all IBM facilities were placed at the disposal of the U.S. government. IBM’s product line expanded to include bombsights, automatic rifles, carbines and engine parts: in all, more than three dozen major ordnance items. IBM’s president, Thomas Watson, Sr., set a nominal one percent profit on those products and used the money to establish a fund for the survivors of former IBM employees who became casualties of the war.
Of the estimated six-million M1 carbines produced from 1941 to 1945, the 346,500 carbines made by IBM was a small percentage. The M1 carbines produced by IBM were manufactured at Plant Number 4 located in Poughkeepsie, New York and some parts were produced at the company’s facility located in Endicott, New York. Serial numbers of IBM carbines range from 3,651,520 to 4,009,999. While the cost per unit price varied from contract to contract, the average price paid by the U.S. Government was $42.39 each. IBM only manufactured the “standard” configuration M1 carbine. They did not produce the M1A1 folding stock paratrooper or the select-fire M2 models. Like virtually all of the carbine manufacturers of the period, IBM engaged a large number of subcontractors to make their carbine parts. The company only made four parts in-house: receivers, barrels, bolts and trigger housings. Parts subcontracted by IBM would all include their manufacturing code, the letter “B”, in addition to the subcontractor’s letter codes. Approximately fifty-percent of the receivers used in the assembly of IBM carbines were made by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation of Thompson submachine gun fame.
During World War II production runs of all weapons, shortages of parts often occurred resulting in parts being obtained from surpluses at other contractor’s plants to keep theproduction lines moving. Therefore, it would be possible to have mixed contractor parts in a gun and still technically be correct. However, it was during Ordnance Department rebuild programs where the mixture of different contractor parts generally occurred. After contracts were terminated, huge surpluses of spare parts were collected and used for refurbishing or repairing unserviceable weapons. Most U.S. World War II era weapons were rebuilt at leastonce and often a number of times. During rebuild programs the weapons were upgraded with the latest parts, like the adjustable rearsight and barrel band with the bayonet lug. IBM carbine receivers used the integral spring guide design. Receivers made by IBM had the narrow type of tang while those produced by subcontractor Auto- Ordnance had a wider tang.
One of the major parts manufactured in-house by IBM was the barrel, marked with the letters IBM. Barrels made by the company before 1944 were dated while later barrels were not marked with a date. Barrel bands used on IBM carbines were the early Type 1 narrow or Type 2 wide bands. There were no Type 3 bands with the bayonet lug used.
The flat type bolts were used on most of IBM carbines although late in the war the round type bolts were introduced and replaced the flat type bolt. Original bolts had a dull blue finish.
While many carbine contractors used a milled one-piece trigger housing, those used by IBM were those fabricated from stamped parts and brazed together. This type of construction is easily recognizable by the brass colored seams where the parts are joined together.
The Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbine Connection
Thompson submachine gun enthusiasts are quite a dedicated group who like to collect virtually everything even remotely connected to the Thompson. One carbine that is of particular interest to this group of collectors is the IBM produced M1 carbine with receivers that were manufactured by the Auto-Ordnance Corporation. Such carbines are clearly identified with the letters AO stamped on the heel of the receiver. Auto-Ordnance also supplied IBM’s carbine program with bolts and operating slides, which can be identified by the contractor code markings: AOB, AOB-FF, FF-AOB or F-AOB. AO would of course designate Auto-Ordnance, the letter B was IBM’s contractor code, while the significance of the letter F is unknown.
For today’s collector the most desirable carbine would have all IBM contracted and subcontracted parts that were marked with the letter “B”. The early configurations would of course be the most desirable with the L-type sight and other early features followed by those with late war features. Thompson collectors would be most interested in the IBM/AO marked receivers, which also happens to be the most sought after variation of the IBMcarbine. While an all-original example can be difficult to locate they can be found with some patience and effort. An unmatchingcarbine would be easier to find and can be restored by locating and installing the correctly marked parts. Manyenthusiasts find a lot of pleasure in the challenge of searching for the correct parts and restoring their carbines to an original “as issued” configuration.
This article first appeared in Small Arms Review V10N12 (September 2007)
and was posted online on November 16, 2012 |
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